1 | P a g e  
 
Appendix 1(a) 
Interview with Prof. David Coplan 
Held at University of Witwatersrand, November 2, 2010 
 
Key 
W: William Masemola  (Interviewer) 
C: Prof. David Coplan  (Interview subject) 
Interview 
W I am trying to look at the history of music festivals in South Africa and the 
developmental role these festivals played in the lives of participants (Musician) 
C It?s a good question because festivals as kind of a focal point of musical life in the 
city have been there for a long time. I don?t know for sure when the whole idea really 
started because we certainly going back into the sixties; so shall we say way back in the 
deepest, darkest times in terms of intolerances on the part of the government for large 
gatherings, the regime from the 50?s was extremely intolerant of almost any large 
gathering of black people almost for anything. Ok; they understood that people had to 
have soccer because of some sport and so on, even though they were extremely 
uncooperative about the provision of venues for sports. It was like on the one hand they 
kind of recognized that black people in town to have some diversion but somehow the 
minute you started having to say there is got to be a stadium or the existing sports 
grounds has to be made available to Africans it was always a backyard business. Bantu 
sports club and so forth which was attached to the BMSC, so in that sense a sports 
entertainment, ballroom, concert and dance, the vaudeville and Eisteddfods, all of these 
things were in the same kind of category as far as the Bantu Affairs, they were in charge 
of all that staff and even though they part of some prominent people on the board, getting 
venues on a regular basis was really a chore and it was better under Smuts before 1948, 
even Albert Luthuli brought the Durban Soccer Team here. Few venues were available, 
and even those venues where for situations for the middle class. 
W         Are you referring to white middle class? 
C Whites had everything, the black middle class you had to wear a jacket and a tie. 
When you say middle class this of course includes masters, teachers, messengers? boys, 
clerks who had western culture ideals. They could save up and buy these gowns for the 
big competitions and such. So even though the pay was not what we might call middle 
class but their cultural attitude was aspiring to western ideals. So entertainment as well, 
2 | P a g e  
 
large bands in the swing era and then sometimes they used to have battle of bands where 
they would have two of the really large popular bands attracting a very big following to 
some of the cinemas or the township hall (The Uncle Toms Hall and the DH Williams 
Hall) so there was that but would not call that a festival. In the 60?s, castle beer began to 
sponsor this festivals in the football grounds like Jabulani, White City and you would 
have a whole range of bands but what I don?t really know is why in particular that 
festival event. But my suspicion is they didn?t allow clubs and halls, they expelled the 
black showbiz from the city halls in town, so its only the townships and in the townships 
you only have so many places and they didn?t have jazz clubs and they didn?t have 
concert halls per se where you are going to have seats for between 150 to 400 type of 
venue, only Pelican in the 70?s. So I suspect it was simply adapting to the available venue 
and the ideas of making as fair amount of money in one go. The festival business was 
always a very risky business, with promoters always running away from the band and 
disappearing because they didn?t pay the band. 
W        So, what you are saying is that before the 60?s there been no actual music festival 
as we know it today? 
C         I think it starts in the 60`s because there were only big venues, there were no small 
venues, outside of liberal white parties and the Johannesburg Jazz association where 
whites would invite blacks to come and play but then there would be no blacks in the 
audience, just playing on the stage. So it started that way with the Cold Castle Festival. 
W        So, what developmental role in terms of their careers do you think these festivals 
and live performances played in the lives of the then musicians? 
C         In those days to win a prize at those festivals was a very great deal because there 
were so few other places/venues/outlets to come to prominence in the publics? eye. After 
this, all these old bands like the Jazz Maniacs, Harlem Swingsters and Elite Swingsters 
were basically crushed. They denied them a wide audience, venues to play; you had to 
have a pass to run around all over the place. So fans could not follow the bands around 
anymore, you had to have a permit. One of the things that Apartheid did was to crash 
black showbiz and the regimes hatred for the jazz people was astonishing. So much 
negativity was expended on artists whom we don?t necessarily think of as a threat to the 
state, but that is how they perceived them. Because they were neither ?good boy  
christians? who went to the Eisteddfod and praying in their spare time nor where they 
?moegoes? coming to the mines and doing whatever you are told because ?Baas? says so. 
The jazz people were cheeky, following the Americans, reading magazines like Ebony, 
and being very sophisticated.  
They were everything they didn?t want the Bantus to be in the cultural sense, and they 
understood that its culture today and politics tomorrow. Because Sophiatown was the 
3 | P a g e  
 
headquarters of jazz, also the headquarters of ANC, A.B. Xuma, the writers, journalists 
and cheeky people. It?s an unbelievable thing to try and remember those days and to 
imagine the regime expecting that there is only two kinds of blacks, the ones in the 
church and there is one crowd who were in the mines, and the other ones, the ?clevers? 
were absolutely disliked by the regime. They could not comprehend it, so they made it 
impossible for this people to show up and do things. So then the festival came, for bands 
like the Kippie Moeketsi?s, the Malombos and other different bands to win the Cold 
Castle prize was a big deal because it was to put your head above the crowd. 
W        So almost they came into prominence because of the festival? 
C         Yaah, I mean in some cases they actually won the prize because they were already 
popular and people voted for them, people voted for the latest sensation. On the other 
hand you know, I attended those things in the 70?s and once or twice I was made to be a 
judge because they would see one white face in the sea of Sowetans, so they would come 
and say you have to be a judge, and I would say why are you picking me for because I 
not qualified and they would say no, it doesn?t matter. The 70?s went on after the Cold 
Castle ended, because there was a lot of violence at these festivals and Castle got a bit 
nervous about these. So the 70?s came and they had festivals all the time with the up?s 
and down?s of some success and some failures, people were dying for entertainment in 
Soweto, it wasn?t the best way to see music in a football stadium but people just wanted 
to go out and prices were moderate. We had the famous 70?s bands, the Drivers, Harare, 
Malombo, groups from Durban and some were even political, and that really sustained 
Soweto?s musical life. Into the 80?s it declined, although they tried to have more 
festivals, things got low for some time for about ten years because of the 76?s uprising. 
Now this was a time when I was not in South Africa, I was expelled from the country for 
fourteen years and I was not allowed in the country by the government, so I can?t say 
which festivals and so on. Quite a few took place in the neighbouring countries 
(Swaziland, Gaborone, Maseru) and homelands because they had a certain ability to host 
them. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Appendix 1(b) 
Interview with Gwen Ansell 
Email interview 
  
Key 
W: William Masemola  (Interviewer) 
G: Gwen Ansell  (Interview subject) 
There is information on jazz festivals in both my book, Soweto Blues, and in David 
Coplan's In Township Tonight. In both cases, you'll have to skim through or use the 
index, as neither of us has a chapter on the topic specifically. However, you have to 
distinguish between today's festivals and the era of the 60s/early 70s and the Castle Lager 
(actually called "Cold Castle") Festivals. 
Those were a direct product of the abolition of Prohibition for black drinkers. They were 
marketing tools to attract the aspirational black drinkers towards the brand -- since jazz, 
then and now, was seen as an aspirational music.  For a brief time, they provided a 
platform for the most adventurous music (Chris McGregor. Eric Nomvete, Phillip 
Tabane) in a non-racial environment. But of course as unrest and repression increased, 
they became difficult, and with 'illegal assembly' legislation, impossible. (That legislation 
allowed the apartheid authorities to designate areas where it was illegal for more than 5 
people to assemble! Even family meetings could be illegal!). That kind of festival died 
out completely. Later festivals during apartheid were far less adventurous, purely 
commercial events totally subservient to whatever conditions the authorities wanted to 
impose, though artists (Ray Phiri is a notable example) often bucked the conditions once 
on stage  -- apart, of course, from the resistance festivals of the UDF, and things like the 
Free People's Festivals at Wits -- which were sometimes violently broken up by the 
authorities. 
Things like Joy of Jazz completely post-date this: they were a commercial (and to some 
extent cultural, but not so much now) response to the end of apartheid. I included a short 
passage on the history of Joy of Jazz in the piece on festival curation I wrote for the Mail 
& Guardian about 2 weeks ago, and I'm pasting it below. 
Festivals are actually highly variable in their impact on a musician's career. They may 
provide 'exposure' but how valuable that is depends on the prestige of the festival, the 
type of audience, and festival curation (what kind of context an artist's work is presented 
in).  Sometimes fees are high -- but rehearsal is never paid for and one festival does not 
5 | P a g e  
 
kleep a band eating for a month. Many artists today in fact argue that government 
festivals, where the public is admitted free, are actually bad for their careers as they foster 
the culture of non-payment for music.  
The key career factor is the whole infrastructure of music development in a community 
(music education, musicians' organisations, a hierarchy of venues from small to big 
through which a player can pay his dues and hone his skills). One-off events are 
extremely minor compared to the lack in South Africa of all of this... 
But you are right: there has been no history of SA jazz festivals written, and if your 
research achieves that, it will be extremely valuable indeed. I wish you all good luck and 
if there's any way I can help, just ask. I'd be happy to do a longer e-interview when you 
have done more research and worked out specific quesions you think I can help with. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Appendix 1(c) 
Interview with Jonathan Shaw 
Held at University of Witwatersrand 
  
Key 
W: William Masemola  (Interviewer) 
J: Jonathan Shaw  (Interview subject) 
Interview 
W        I have been reading your book on the South African Music Industry and basically 
what I am interested in finding out about in this interview is how do you see music 
festivals especially the Standard Bank of Joy of Jazz contributing to the development of 
local musicians that are featured there?   
J     From my experience many local rock bands find a wider audience through     
festivals. Local bands such as Sixteen Stitch, Wickhead, Knave, Tweek have found 
degrees of success through appearances at Oppikoppi, Woodstock and so on (remember 
Jimi Hendrix found his break through the original Woodstock even). I know, however, 
that there was a lot of ground work these groups needed to do before being selected to 
play at these festivals.In short, local acts generally fail to bring in demand if not grouped 
together. Festivals provide a wide variety of content at a generally lower cost. Festivals 
have always helped broaden a musicians career, but they need to work up to this level. 
I?m not sure of government involvement, as I said, Gauteng Provincial has been funding 
Joy of Jazz and various others. As far as I know there hasn?t been much funding in other    
festivals. Again talk to them about actual funding. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Appendix 1(d) 
 
Interview with Concord Nkabinde 
Held in Newtown, Market theatre 
  
Key 
W: William Masemola  (Interviewer) 
C: Concord Nkabinde (Interview subject) 
 
Interview 
 
W        How long have you been a musician and what is your primary musical 
instrument? 
C         I have been a musician since 1985, which makes it 24 years of playing bass. My 
father was involved in training choirs and I also got involved in playing in church. Those 
years of playing in church were the most important years of music education for me in 
terms of playing from the heart because you had to the life that you were living and also 
developing the ear for music. You had to be able to find and identify a key at which 
someone in the congregation was singing in and be able to accompany them, those days 
things were not as organized as they are today. For me those years were interesting and 
when I later went to study music at University, I really fully appreciated those years. I 
enrolled for a Bachelor of music degree in Jazz studies but when I went to University I 
didn?t go there thinking that I am going to study jazz, in fact I didn?t like jazz growing 
up. When I got to Natal University there were mainly two streams, Western Classical or 
Jazz stream and without thinking twice, I chose jazz. 
W       Are you a professional musician or do you consider yourself a professional jazz 
musician? 
C        I am not a jazz musician. I see myself as a musician, jazz may happen to be a style 
of music that I have spent more time with but when I finished studying I actually set 
down and asked myself, do you want to become a jazz musician or just a musician and I 
consciously decided to become a musician. That meant I can play with rock, jazz, gospel, 
traditional African musician and I like that because it informs the music I create now 
8 | P a g e  
 
which is a combination of different things. In fact jazz gave me so much freedom that 
now I don?t want to be called a jazz musician. 
W        An interview with you is interesting because even though I am interested in your 
appearance at the Joy of Jazz festival in 2006, you had also won the Standard Bank 
Young Artist Award, how has that changed your music career? 
C         It?s amazing how when you establish yourself in the music industry and you look 
ahead and look at other musicians what they have achieved and you say to yourself that 
maybe in five to ten years? time, I will achieve this and that. And one event comes into 
your life and catapults your career five years ahead within one year. That?s exactly what 
the Standard Bank Young Artist Award did for me in terms of exposure, in terms of 
broadening my network not just in the music industry because unfortunately most 
musicians think of themselves as only within the music industry and the one thing I have 
learnt from that is you need to interact with other industries. Because if you interact with 
other industries it also influences how you create music and that for me is exciting 
because then it sets you apart from the rest so that you don?t do things the same way they 
have been done. An example would be how I sell a lot of my cd?s, I may not do a lot of 
sales from cd stores but I approach corporates?. End of the year, a lot of corporates do 
parties where they give gifts to their clients, So I approach them and say if you are 
willing to buy my cd?s for your clients I will give you a certain discount if you buy so 
many and they like that. And what some of them end up doing is that they invite you to 
come and perform at that very same end of the year party, people see you and they go 
home with your cd. So it does just add value and depth to what they are doing and what 
you are doing. 
W        Tell me about your appearance at the Standard Bank Joy of Jazz Festival, how did 
impact your career? 
C        I did the Standard Bank Joy of Jazz with my band in 2006 but before that I had 
done it with Arol Ayers (USA) where I featured as a bassist. I got involved in the festival 
through Standard Bank and it is a festival that I had always wanted to perform at but I 
saw it as something that was far in the distant future and hence I was saying receiving the 
Standard Bank Young Artist Award brought those kind of opportunities closer and made 
them a reality. 
 But when you get exposed to those kind of opportunities, responsibility comes 
into play big time because it?s one thing to say I?ve been booked for the Joy of Jazz, I 
will rehearse for one or two days with a band and go and perform. You have got to 
seriously think about the kind of platform that you are being exposed to through the 
festival. So the program that you are going to prepare to perform at the festival, think of 
the person who is seen you ten times and think about the person who is seeing you for the 
9 | P a g e  
 
very first time and they don?t know your music at all. So how you present it, what you 
say about the music once on stage is also crucial. But also leading to the festival, I don?t 
depend on the festival for advertising, so I write my own press release and send it to my 
media database but also set up my own interviews where I can and just make as many 
people as possible aware that I will be performing at the festival. Some people may not 
be planning to attend the festival but if they find out that I will be performing and maybe 
they haven?t seen me for a year, then they come. So it?s the proactivity of doing things 
even in big festival like that, you cant take it for granted that they?ve got a publicity 
company, then they are going to do it all, do it yourself. 
W        What kind of opportunities do you think the festival opened for you? 
C         I got a lot of gig opportunities especially within South Africa because the target 
audience for the Joy of Jazz is working class, middle and upper , so there is a lot of 
corporate that come to the festival. After the festival even at the festival itself I met a lot 
of people where we exchanged business cards and some of them would be CEO?s of 
companies and they showed interest in my music and future engagements were 
established. So in that sense it was great and I also received a lot of interviews after the 
festival and those interviews were both local and international. Again in terms of 
proactivity, post the festival event which is something a lot of people neglect, I would 
write another press release that is almost like a report, that we performed at these festival 
and this is what it felt like and so on. Through that I received a lot of international interest 
because for me sending that internationally, I am not just selling myself but I am also 
selling the festival and I would say that this is a South African International Festival and 
mentioned some of the international artists that performed at the festival. So if a media 
person sitting in New York reads that George Duke was at this festival and so is Concord 
Nkabinde, so he must some good deal even though he is not. So for that constant feed of 
information especially to the media and the general public is important, we need to 
capitalize on that. After the festival I saw my profile just going a few steps higher and it 
opened a lot of doors, it has made a mark and I am forever grateful for those kinds of 
opportunities. In fact people ask me every time there is a Joy of Jazz if I am performing 
that particular year. 
W      How would you describe the treatment you received at the festival from the 
organizers? 
C        The treatment I received was really good, one thing that happened in that year I did 
the Joy of Jazz is that I was invited to a lunch on the Saturday of the festival where T-
 musicman had invited all the different artists both local and international who were part 
of the festival to come and interact and network. The problem I think is how you perceive 
yourself as an artist. Firstly, I never see myself as an opening artist or a lesser artist than 
international artist irrespective of where I am in the program. Sometimes there is a 
10 | P a g e  
 
perception that if you play first then you are a curtain raiser, I don?t buy that, give five 
people in the audience, I will give the best show. For instance, when I did the Cape Town 
Jazz festival in 2007, I was the first person to play at that time because they made the 
program to be jagged so that people can at least see a bit of everything. My set started at 
7pm and at that time I was the only stage that had a band playing as a result people who 
were on the ground could only come to my performance and for me that was a wow. And 
yet another artist would have complained that no, they want to perform at 10pm when 
there is more people. The headline in one of the newspapers the next day said ?Concord 
Nkabinde Opens the Cape Town Jazz Festival?. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Appendix 2(b) 
 
Interview with McCoy Mrubata 
Held in Rosebank, Seattle Coffee Shop, Apr. 13, 2010 
  
Key 
W: William Masemola  (Interviewer) 
M: Mc Coy Mrubata (Interview subject) 
 
Interview 
W      How long have you been a musician and what is your primary musical 
instrument? 
M       I have been a full time musician since 1978, so it?s definitely more than thirty 
years, professionally so to speak. And my main instrument is the tenor saxophone 
although I started out with a flute. 
W        Are you a professional musician or do you consider yourself to be a professional 
jazz musician? 
M       I am just a professional musician; I am not shy or scared of being called a jazz 
musician. Its simply because I am not a jazz purist, music is music to me. I am influenced 
by traditional healers, Amazion and jazz music because I grew up in that environment. 
When I was growing up there was a jazz big band that used to rehearse opposite my 
grandmother?s place and I would go and sit there and listen. My next door neighbours 
both left and right were ?Amazion?. I absorbed all that and didn?t know that I will be a 
musician someday. I wanted to study music professionally but those years University of 
Cape Town was whites only, so what I would do, there was a place in Mowbray where 
Suzan Berry used to teach, I got a few lessons there. It was not a formal thing, it was a 
recreational place. We used to just jam basically anything. And then I heard of another 
place called the Jazz Workshop but I could not afford the fess but then Merton Barrow 
gave us a subsidy, guys from the township. I didn?t really learn formally, I went to 
different people who were kind enough to give lessons, people like Ezra Ngcukana. 
W        Through what festival did your first professional recognition occur? 
12 | P a g e  
 
M        I have done so many festivals both locally and internationally. Back in Cape Town 
there jazz festivals in Good hope Centre where Robbie Jansen and Pacific Express would 
perform, that was a step for me. In one of these festivals, that?s where Sipho ?Hotstix 
Mabuse spotted me and he invited me to come to Johannesburg in 1987. The Good hope 
Centre festivals were the ones that really opened my eyes you know! I played with 
Harare for a year; the following year in 1988 I joined P.J. Powers. During the stint with 
P.J. Powers I got a recording deal with a British based record company called Zomba 
records. The guy who spotted me was the late Koloi Lebona, at the time I was just happy 
to do gigs and gain experience and felt like I wasn?t quite ready for an album, but I 
signed the deal anyway. He had already organized people who were going to write songs 
for me (Paul Hanmer & Jabu Nkosi). It was hectic because I was playing with P.J. 
Powers and Stimela and at the same time busy with my recording. 
W         When did you first get involved with the Standard Bank Joy of Jazz? 
M         Well, I am the very first to appear when it was still held in Pretoria State Theatre, 
that was in the 90s. I appeared for three successive years alongside Sibongile Khumalo 
and Ezra Ngcukana, it was great to play alongside my teacher. There weren?t many jazz 
artists then, I appeared again in 2003 when the festival had grown and acquired a 
Standard Bank as a sponsor. 
W        How did the festival impact or boost your career? 
M        Well, I guess when it started to even bigger audiences in Johannesburg it then 
started to have a wider appeal. Because back then when it was in Pretoria State Theatre it 
was not international. It opened gates for more fans; it opened doors for me in terms of 
fans and other festival promoters. Back then they didn?t have workshops but today they 
do, which is a good thing for development. Established artists are invited both local and 
international to come and give workshops and share with young and upcoming artists. 
W      How would you describe the treatment you received at the festival from the 
organizers? 
M      At least with the Joy of Jazz they know their business, they treat artists with 
respect, and they treat me with respect all the time. But over the years I have really 
performed like I said, the last time I was there was in 2003. I don?t want to appear at the 
festival every year; there is a very pool of musicians now. It?s like with Cape Town Jazz 
festival or winning awards, I don?t want to win every year, lets share and give everyone a 
chance. At times you get some of these festival promoters asking you to lower your fees 
so that they can feature you in all their festivals, I don?t subscribe to that. Its wrong 
because some of this promoters are managers of these artists, even with the Joy of Jazz as 
good as it is, it has got its downside that I don?t like because of that. 
13 | P a g e  
 
Another downside that I really they should attend to is that of access to all stages. There 
is so much emphasis in the festival on these VIP?s nonsense and I don?t subscribe to that. 
Let?s say for instance I have got a pass but it?s limited behind the stage, if I see a 
businessman or person that I would like to interact with maybe for future projects, you 
are blocked. They should give us access to this VIP guys. 
W        What about fellow international artists, do you get the opportunity to interact with 
them 
M        Yes we do get the opportunity because they are backstage as well. I know their 
tents are bigger, have more refreshments than us local musicians, its Ok, we are not 
complaining. For the mere fact that we are able to interact with them it?s ok. It?s worse in 
other pop festivals where local musicians cannot even get close to the international 
musicians because they have bodyguards. 
W        At this moment in your life, how satisfied are you with your career? 
M        In the scale of ten, I would say seven. My kids are in good schools even though I 
do get behind on my bills sometimes but I am satisfied. We miss the club gigs a lot here 
in Johannesburg, an intimate place where we as jazz musicians can get lost in our music, 
something you cannot do in a festival. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Appendix 2(c) 
Interview with Judith Sephuma 
Held in Yeoville, Johannesburg, Mar. 16, 2010 
  
Key 
W:   William Masemola  (Interviewer) 
J:     Judith Sephuma (Interview subject) 
 
Interview 
   
W       How long have you been a musician and what is your primary musical instrument? 
J          I have been a musician professionally for the past 20 years. 
W       Are you a professional musician or do you consider yourself a professional jazz 
musician? 
J         I consider myself a professional musician, I don?t see a difference between the 
two. 
W        Through what festival did your first professional recognition occur and how many 
festivals have you done so far? 
J          I have done a lot of festivals both here in South Africa and overseas way before I 
could appear at the Standard Bank Joy of Jazz festival, some with it was with orchestras?. 
I have done the North Sea Jazz in Amsterdam and locally I have also appeared at the 
Cape Town International Jazz festival. 
W        How would you describe the Standard Bank Joy of Jazz festival and what impact 
did that have on your music career? 
J        You know what, it had an impact on my career, a lot of these shows that we do 
have had an impact but it also depends on the level of the show that you are doing. I don?t 
want to perform at the festival or show that don?t add value to my life. I don?t want to 
make people fulfilled and I leave there empty, I want to leave there with something as 
well. So, the Joy of Jazz Festival has done that in the past, I had great responses in terms 
of work, how people received me, how other promoters responded, I mean every 
15 | P a g e  
 
promoter wanted me in their show. The promoters that saw us at the festival took us 
somewhere else locally. 
W        So those opportunities came as a result of the Joy of Jazz festival appearance? 
J        You know, even before the Joy of Jazz festival, not particularly it. The Joy of Jazz 
is one of them, its one of those that actually added value to my life. Most of the people 
saw me perform with orchestras? first, so for me that was classy enough. The Joy of Jazz 
came really way after all of that but it does add value to music career. 
W        Most local musicians complain of the bad treatment they receive at local music 
festival when there are international artists, how would you describe the treatment you 
got from the festival organizers, did they make you feel like you were important? 
J          I have never really felt that I have been mistreated in any way and I guess also the 
whole thing begin when you send out your technical rider. It?s all about what you want as 
an artist as well, your requirements and if you don?t get that right from the beginning then 
it makes it difficult for them to kind of meet you half way. So you have to do your part as 
well as an artist and if things are not met, you make sure that the next time when they 
invite you, you clarify that. That is what I believe in, us working together with the 
promoters to make sure that we get what we want. So that at the end of the day they are 
happy and we are happy. 
 We have been treated fairly well because I would say that there are some 
challenges on some shows, you find that you get treatment that is not good but it won?t 
just be me, it would be possibly all of us. But it?s also because we as South African artists 
we have never really perfected the craft of us performing on stage i.e. how we carry 
ourselves on stage, how we want to sound on stage. We take it very lightly and that is 
why maybe some people will not take you seriously. I have had great experiences at the 
festival and that is what I would like to remember. 
W       Well, you are one of those musicians who have studied music professionally, do 
you think that has had an impact maybe in how you conduct yourself and business 
professionally? 
J         Yes in a very big way, since I was doing jingles in Cape Town before I was really 
this well known. I worked with a lot of white people who knew discipline with time, 
payments, knowing that you are worth this much and they don?t pay you peanuts, which 
has been my experience from the beginning of my career. They taught and forced me to 
look good and always be on time, I had a changing room of my own before I had an 
album, and I mean they would even offer me towels when I didn?t need them. I just took 
that and ran with it. 
16 | P a g e  
 
W        How satisfied are you with your career at this point in time? 
J         One is never supposed to be satisfied, I believe that a career is something you work 
on every day because we are living in a world that evolves, things are changing, you are 
changing, you grow up, it?s bound to change. So you have to walk and run with it. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
17 | P a g e  
 
 Appendix 3(a) 
 
Interview with Zithulele Shabangu 
Held in Klipspruit (Soweto), Johannesburg, Mar 2, 2010. 
  
Key 
W: William Masemola  (Interviewer) 
Z: Zithulele Shabangu (Interview subject) 
W        How long have you been a musician and what is your primary instrument? 
Z          Well, I started when I was 21 and now I am 45 years old. My primary instrument 
is the guitar. 
W         Did you study music professionally at a University or music school? 
Z         Yes though in the beginning I was just learning and taking lessons from people 
around me and it wasn?t easy. I saw a need to go to school, that?s where I joined 
AMDA(African Music and Drama Association) in 1989 in Dorkay house. I did my 
grades there and after that I decided that I must leave my work which I was doing during 
the day and at night I would go to school. In 1996 I decided to join Wits, that is where I 
studied from 1996 up until 1999 and obtained a Higher Diploma in Music Education. 
Primarily I was trained in classical but in my final year I decided to have Bheki Khoza as 
my guitar lecture and that is where I got introduced to the jazz language. 
W         Are you a jazz musician or do you consider yourself a professional musician? 
Z         Yes I consider myself a professional jazz musician because I am involved in a jazz 
band which we started while I was still at Wits. We started a jazz band called ?Soweto 
Jazz Quartet?; it was started by me and a friend who subsequently left the country.         
W        Is the band still in existence? 
Z         Yes it is still in existence though we are struggling because there are no more jazz 
gigs, unless we do corporate gigs. 
W       Through which or what festival did your first professional recognition occur and 
how many festivals have you done so far? 
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Z         Well, it was the Joy of Jazz when it started, when they were launching the festival 
in Newtown. We were the first developmental band to be featured alongside Zim 
Ngcawana on the same stage. 
W        How did you get invited to come and perform at the Joy of Jazz festival? 
Z         There was this event called Jazz fusion update going on, so we were friends with 
the people that were doing these events. Every month end they would call us to come and 
perform live while they were playing their cd?s, that?s where we were seen. So they 
decided that our band was hip because we were playing predominantly jazz music. We 
were spotted by the guy called Oupa Selemane, he works/worked with the festival 
organizers even though I don?t know how far his involvement goes. 
W      How would you describe the treatment you received at the festival from the 
organizers? 
Z          At first we were excited to be at the festival, I wouldn?t say we were made to feel 
like we were important, that would be wrong for me to say that. But at least we were 
excited that we are playing with Zim Ngcawana on the same stage and we are a young 
band, that means things will get better with time, we will get recognised and maybe we 
might get a recording deal but things turned out differently. 
W        Were those expectations impressed upon you guys when you got invited, did they 
promise you that? 
Z        Nothing was promised just that you are a developmental band, we will get the   
Stage, we will be seen by jazz lovers and we will be playing alongside Zim  Ngcawana, 
that is it and it ends there. Our expectation was that since the Standard Bank is 
sponsoring the Joy of Jazz, maybe we might grow with the festival but when the festival 
grew we were out of the picture.                           
W        How were you kept out of the picture, did you have a relationship with them? 
Z         We kept in touch with them, we used to ask when the next festival is. The next 
thing I know, there was auditions for bands to be featured on the festival. So, according 
to me, since we qualified the first time around and performed at the festival, we thought 
they might be some kind of relationship between us and them, but that did not happen. 
W        What do you think the festival organizers can do better in terms of improving how 
they relate with you guys? 
Z          What I have noticed is that when International artists come, your being there as a 
South African musician does not really matter, in fact they would chase you out of the 
area where they are found. You cannot mingle with them unless maybe at a workshop, 
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that is where you would see one or two. The festival needs to work towards changing that 
perception and treatment. 
W        So, post your performance there, were you invited to other festivals or was it just 
the Joy of Jazz festival only? 
Z          No, there were other festivals, Ziyaphenduka promotions, Morris Rhoda 
promotions; we did a lot of other music festivals. 
W        Do you think these opportunities came as a result of the appearance at the Joy of 
Jazz? 
Z         I would suggest yes, because we were in the newspapers and we also did a 
television interview on Morning live. In a way the festival did provide platform for us. 
W       Would you then say that the festival played a role in developing you guys and 
that way it served its purpose? 
Z        I would say yes and No. Yes because we had other gigs with other promoters and 
No because the whole thing just ended. In our view that was the biggest platform ever 
and had hoped that we would have relations that would go on and on. I don?t whether it 
was because we were not persistent enough or because there are lot of artists that are 
looking for the opportunity and the festival stage is just a small cake, a lot of people need 
to get a chunk of it. 
W      How has your lives changed post the appearances at the festival and how satisfied 
are you with your career at this moment? 
Z         No, I wouldn?t agree with the changing of lives because of the festival but because 
of working hard on getting the band somewhere using other avenues. We are now doing a 
lot of corporate gigs with the same band and that is where we get our bread buttered. 
W        Has your talent been recognized beyond the borders of South Africa and how did 
those opportunities come about? 
Z         Yes I have been to Zaire, Democratic Republic of Congo, Holland, Belgium, and  
Botswana. Some people spotted me while I was performing with my band and others just 
saw me performing with other artists.  
W        But I guess you also mention in your profile or that of the band that you once 
appeared at the Standard Bank Joy of Jazz? 
Z        Well, sometimes it does open doors to some employers who have not seen us 
perform there before but others it doesn?t. It has an impact if they have seen us there 
20 | P a g e  
 
before but then again it is hard to tell but I guess it does add some value to our profile. 
Having said that, I know a lot of artists that are famous today because of the Standard 
Bank Joy of Jazz festival e.g. Kunle Ayo, but that is because he has appeared a number of 
times. It is a very important platform for development. Continuity and development 
should be important to them, they should make sure that the people they are developing 
see their way through, not just call them this year and then call them 20 years later. 
W        How satisfied are you with your career at this point in time? 
Z          I would say I am satisfied with teaching because I am working as a music teacher 
now, and seeing young people learning from what we teach brings joy. The standard of 
performing venues has dropped so much in that there is a lot of Dj?s and vinyl spinning; 
there is any platform for jazz except when the Standard Bank Joy of Jazz comes once in a 
year. I am bitter about the fact that jazz is dying a slow death here in Gauteng. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Appendix 3(b) 
 
Interview with Sipho Malinga 
Held in Pimville (Maponya mall, Mugg & Bean), Johannesburg, June 2, 2010 
  
Key 
W: William Masemola  (Interviewer) 
S: Sipho Malinga (Interview subject) 
 
Interview 
W        How long have you been a musician and what is your primary instrument? 
S       Actually I started playing at the age of about 12 at church and started playing 
professionally from the year 2000 after I joined Fuba School of music. I got identified by 
certain musicians who saw me performing and they decided to feature me in their bands. 
So I am a drummer basically, I came to Fuba already playing; it was just a matter of 
furthering my music knowledge getting certified. 
W        Are you a professional musician or do you consider yourself a professional jazz 
musician?  
S         I am just a professional musician, I wouldn?t say I am a professional jazz musician 
because that would put me in a corner and I don?t want to cage myself. That is because I 
don?t only play jazz, I also play Gospel music. Actually they way I perceive music is that 
it?s very broad because music is not only about jazz or gospel. Even jazz is fused with a 
whole lot of borrowed sounds from African to Cuban music. I find it very difficult to box 
music as one thing, our gospel music today as well is fused with so many things. The way 
I understand a good musician, is one that can play any other style or genre in its own feel 
and style. That means when you get into any genre, you play and respect the elements of 
that genre. 
W        Through what festival did your first professional recognition occur and how many 
festivals have you done so far? 
S          Locally, if you are here in Johannesburg, the bigger festival is the Standard Bank 
Joy of Jazz. There are other festivals but they are not considered bigger than the Joy of 
22 | P a g e  
 
Jazz festival. Though I started my first professional career at Kippies International, which 
is where I started my professional career. I was playing with musicians like Thulani 
Shabangu and others, which is the first opportunity I got. But when it comes to festivals, 
the Joy of Jazz was my first festival in 2002, we were playing there as a developmental 
band. It was a quartet made up of Luyanda Madope (Piano), Sanka Diamonds(Guitar), 
Mzwandile Kunene (Bass) and myself on drums. 
W        Who invited you to come and perform at the festival and how were you invited? 
S         It started when we went to the Puisano Jazz foundation; we auditioned there and 
won a prize in a form of a space to perform at the festivals developmental stages. The 
developmental stages are the small areas on the side-lines of the festival, it?s mainly for 
the general public that cannot afford and sometimes corporates dine there as well during 
the festival. 
W        How would you describe the treatment you got from the festival organizers, were 
you made to feel like you were important? 
S      Yes, actually it was nice because everything was conducted in a professional 
manner. We got all our tickets (complementary& parking) tickets on time like all other 
artists in the festival. I think as for my experience it was a fair treatment because also our 
payment was done on time, we got our money without any problems. 
W        You stated that you appeared at the festival in 2002, did you appear again in the 
following years? 
S        Yes I did appear again in the festival, at that time I was playing with Selaelo 
Selota. We shared a stage with Kirk Whalum and Richard Bona who were the big 
international acts. It was held in the turbine hall which now the offices of Anglo Gold 
Ashanti. Selaelo first saw me when I was still studying at Fuba but he also saw me 
performing with Geoff Mapaya at Bassline. I appeared with another with another 
recorded artist by the name of Moloko Kgomo in 2007. Since then I appeared again in 
2009 with my own band called the Minor band, this time around we were a 
developmental band. We had won the Puisano thing again but this time it has changed 
and improved so much since 2002 when we won it with another band. They don?t stop at 
just featuring you at the festival, they organize workshops, gigs and they call professional 
musicians to come and talk to you and the media as well. 
W        So, appearing so many times at the festival, how would you say that has changed 
your music career? 
S       Well, I think it has played a role in my music career development; however it 
depends a lot on how you perceive and use that opportunity because somebody could be 
23 | P a g e  
 
just happy that they are performing at the festival and are seen by their fans and after that 
you take your things and go. My view is that it works if after performing there, you need 
to mingle with other musicians especially established ones because don?t get to see the 
development bands. A lot of people came and spoke to me and some of them came for 
lessons and some indicated that they wanted to work with me in their projects. 
W         Has your talent been recognised beyond the borders of South Africa? 
S         Definitely yes because I have worked with people like Wanda Baloyi where we 
got to go to Mozambique and the people really loved us there. 
W         How satisfied are you with your music career at this moment? 
S          Well right now I am at a place where I am trying to shift the focus to me because 
I have worked with a whole lot of big artists in South Africa i.e. Selaelo Selota, Sello 
Galane, Deborah Fraser. I am at the point where I don?t want to be an employee anymore 
but be able to create employment for other artists, hence I started this band(Minor Band).I 
will also be endorsing a drum set, so that showed me that I am on the right track with my 
career. One other thing is that I am doing a Gospel show on SABC 2 with Rebecca 
Malope where I appear every Sunday. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Appendix 3(c) 
 
Interview with Khumo Kganyago 
Held in Kliptown (Soweto), Johannesburg, Dec 5, 2010. 
  
Key 
W: William Masemola  (Interviewer) 
K: Khumo Kganyago (Interview subject) 
 
Interview 
W        How long have you been a musician and what is your primary instrument? 
K      Well, I would say I have been a musician for 11 to 12 years and my primary 
musical instrument is the guitar. 
W        Are you a professional musician or do you consider myself a professional jazz 
musician? 
K          I do consider myself just a professional musician but without any limitations. So I 
can play jazz and also other styles, I am not confined to jazz only.   
W         Did you study music formally? 
K          I did study music formally at Fuba School of music in Newton. That was between 
the years 2002 and 2003. 
W        Through what music festival did your first professional recognition occur and how 
many festivals have you done so far? 
K      My first ever festival was in the year 2000 at Mofolo Park and I think it was 
arranged by the municipality. I was performing with a band that we had formed called 
?Siyakha?. It was me, Themba Zakwe (trumpet), Bonolo (Keyboards) and others which I 
cannot remember right now. So that was my first festival encounter and then I think the 
second festival I did was when Fuba School of music had arranged for us to go and 
perform at the Nelspruit Show grounds. After that, in 2002 we formed a band with three 
other guys we were studying together at Fuba and we called it the KAMB quartet. 
25 | P a g e  
 
 
W        How did you get invited to come and perform at the Joy of Jazz festival? 
K         We went for auditions that were done by the Department Sports, Arts, Culture and 
Recreation; the programme was called the Puisano Jazz Programme. We did the Puisano 
programme and we won. Through that we got to be at the Joy of Jazz festival and we 
were featured as a developmental band in 2002. 
W        Did you perform on the main stages of the festival? 
K         You know by then they had Turbine hall, Market theatre hall which were like the 
main stages. We were put at Nikkis Oasis which together with Horror Caf? was only for 
developmental bands and entrance was free. After that we were called again for the Joy 
of Jazz festival in 2003. 
K         For the first time it was through Puisano, why do you think they invited you for 
the second time and was at the same place where they feature developmental bands? 
W     Well, I would assume it was because of the reception we got the first time      
around and we were still featured at Nikkis Oasis. 
W        Who invited you the second time around and what was promised to you guys? 
K       The office, the Joy of Jazz office called us directly. Obviously we expected a better 
pay but the pay was a bit less than the previous year due to the fact that the Government 
department puts extra money into the Puisano Programme, hence the difference in the 
payment. The second time around we were booked by the Joy of Jazz festival. 
W        What role do you think the festival played in your music careers and how did it 
impact your lives? 
K          I would be lying, I really don?t know. You know what, I wouldn?t know if some 
of the jobs I got were because of the appearance at the Joy of Jazz. Because after you did 
a particular show, you write in your biography that you did so many shows and festivals. 
I wouldn?t know if some of the jobs I got were because of there is the Joy of Jazz in my 
biography. To be honest, I have never gotten a call from my employers saying they have 
seen me at the Joy of Jazz. But it does give your biography some kind of credibility, so in 
that way in did play a role. 
W         How would you describe the treatment you got from the festival organizers? 
K          The first time we were called for the festival we didn?t have any interaction with 
the organizers whatsoever, the only people we interacted with were the sound people and 
26 | P a g e  
 
catering. Even the payment came from the department and the second time around we got 
paid by the festival even though it was so little. 
W        But what did you guys expect going into the festival in terms of your careers since 
they didn?t promise anything? 
K         The department of Arts, Culture, Sports and Recreation did mention that they are 
trying to at least kind of expose young and upcoming musicians. But from the festival 
organizers side, we thought since the festival is attended by the big guns of the industry 
and corporates, one kind of expected to get useful contacts, networking and relationships 
but none of that happened. 
W        Why is that, was it because of the lack of initiatives from your side in terms of 
networking or maybe these big guns you thought would come didn?t pitch for your 
performance? 
K         I think all the important people i.e. promoters and corporates go to the main big 
stages to watch big established musicians, they hardly make time to come and watch or 
check developmental bands. So I think it?s mainly due to that, the place we were 
performing in is more like a bar and it?s difficult to get your business type people there. I 
think if maybe they did things slightly different maybe things might get better. I don?t 
think the festival organizers do much in terms of development, like I said, we were 
introduced the festival by the department but the festival organizers themselves I don?t 
think they are doing much in terms sourcing young talent and really exposing because its 
one thing to put a person on stage and there is no one there to listen to them but its 
another to another to organize people that you think have the ears and the will and the 
way to take things further for them, which I think that?s what lacked at that time. I don?t 
know what is happening now at the festival. 
W        Did you get an opportunity to interact with established musicians and bands? 
K       We did get that little opportunity through the workshops that were organized, 
which is how we got to interact with local established musicians, at the time the 
international artists had not yet arrived. 
 
 
 
 
 
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Appendix 4 
RESEARCH INTERVIEW QUESTIONS 
 
1. How long have you been a musician, performing and what is your instruments? 
2. Are you a professional musician or do you consider yourself a professional jazz 
musician? 
3. Through what festival did your first professional recognition occur and how many 
festivals have you done so far? 
4. How and who invited you to come and perform at the festival? 
5. How would you describe the treatment you got from the festival organizers, did they 
make you feel that you were important? 
6. How has your life and career changed so far after appearing at the festival? How 
satisfied are you with your music career at this point? 
7. Has your talent and music been recognized beyond the borders of South Africa? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Appendix 5 
CONSENT FOR PARTICIPATION IN INTERVIEW RESEARCH 
 
I volunteer to participate in a research project conducted by William Masemola from 
University of Witwatersrand. I understand that the research is designed to gather 
information around local musicians` experiences and perceived impacts at the Standard 
Bank Joy of Jazz festival. I will be one of approximately six musicians interviewed for 
this research. 
 
1. My participation in this project is voluntary. I understand that I will not receive any 
payment for my participation. I may withdraw and discontinue at any time without 
penalty. 
2. I understand that most respondents find the research interesting and thought provoking. 
If, I however feel uncomfortable in any way during the interview session, I have a right to 
decline to answer any question or end the interview. 
3. Participation involves being by the researcher from the University of Witwatersrand. 
The interview will last approximately one and a half hour. Notes will be taken during the 
interview as well as recorded through a digital recording device. If I do not want to be 
recorded, I will not be able to participate in the interview. 
4. I understand that the researcher will not identify my name in the report should I request 
for it, and that my confidentiality as a respondent in this research will remain safe. 
5. I have read and understand the explanation provided to me. I have had all my questions 
answered to my satisfaction, and I voluntarily agree to participate in this research. 
6. I have been given a copy of this consent form. 
 
 
------------------------------------------                                            ------------------------------ 
              Signature                                                                                   Date 
 
 
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Appendix 6 (a) 
 
 
 
 
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Appendix 6 (b) 
 
 
 
 
 
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Appendix 6 (c)